Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pennsylvania Diners And Other Roadside Restaurants

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Tone 11:57, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pennsylvania Diners And Other Roadside Restaurants[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Contested PROD. I cleaned it up a bit, as it was written sort of like a DVD outer sleeve. I also tried to find sources, but I came up with nothing but commercial links and TV guide type listings. Appears to be non-notable to me, and currently serves as a list of non-notable Pennsylvania diners and restaurants.

Also with this listing: Pittsburgh A To Z. Lara 19:53, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)--DThomsen8 (talk) 13:34, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment User:Colonel Warden has removed the {{dated prod|concern = no assertion that the documentary passes [[WP:GNG]].|month = December|day = 27|year = 2009|time = 17:20|timestamp = 20091227172030}} template from the article Pennsylvania Diners And Other Roadside Restaurants. He has made some other changes, but I am doubtful that the WP:GNG issue can be solved by improving the article.

User:Jennavecia says in her editor note, "None of these places is notable..." but the diners or a list of diners (the "places"), may be notable, or at least notable if included in an article, it is the article about a DVD which was nominated for deletion, and has now received an AfD. My comment is to view this article as a source for developing an article on Pennsylvania diners as a tenative title, and not as a stand-alone article on a PBS TV program and DVD. --DThomsen8 (talk) 20:13, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Being listed in a WP article doesn't make a place notable. There needs to be multiple reliable sources independent of the subject in order for something to be notable for inclusion here. This documentary only has one such source that we can find. The other documentary has none that can be found. For the diners, there would need to be significant coverage on them in order for them to be notable for either their own articles or to be listed in another article, such as List of Pennsylvania diners. But there would need to be a respectable number of notable establishments for such a list to be warranted, and I don't think we have that here. Lara 21:46, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. While Pennsylvania Diners appears to have a reliable source, that isn't enough for WP:NFILMS and I can't find any others. A-Z goes even lower than that. Ironholds (talk) 20:17, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:31, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete both. These seem to be one-offs produced for the local public TV station, but from my searching they do not meet WP:GNG ("significant coverage in reliable sources"), nor any of the WP:NF attributes (widely distributed, receiving an award, etc.). Glenfarclas (talk) 21:17, 3 January 2010 (UTC) See below[reply]

Keep The topic is covered in detail in numerous reliable sources such as the Washington Post, the Boston Herald and the Chicago Sun-Times. It was also nominated for an Emmy. Also, the underlying topic of Pennsylvania diners is notable as there are multiple books dedicated to this topic such as Diners of Pennsylvania‎ and Pennsylvania diners‎ and so User:Dthomsen8's suggestion has merit. The article's cleanup has just started and no attempt has yet been made to discuss its problems on its talk page. Per our deletion process, the nomination is premature. Colonel Warden (talk) 23:38, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any links to all this detailed coverage? I can find a passing mention here, but that's a transcript of some other show, not an article. And it doesn't seem like Pennsylvania Diners was nominated for an Emmy, although the director did get a Daytime Emmy nomination for a program about Mr. Rogers ([1]). Glenfarclas (talk) 00:16, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, I have links. For example, the Emmy nomination for Outstanding Cultural Programming is in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. For another example, here's a critical review in The Dallas Morning News. There's plenty more of this sort and so there is no case for deletion - not the slightest. Colonel Warden (talk) 00:36, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Pennsylvania Diners, and delete A to Z. Per Colonel Warden, my searching skills suck and failed to encompass looking at the Google News archive rather than recent news. Now I see that Pennsylvania Diners has been written up and mentioned significantly several times in varied press, and was nominated for a regional Emmy. Granted, being nominated for a Mid-Atlantic Daytime Emmy should never be confused with being nominated for a Daytime Emmy, but it's not nothing, and combined with media references I think it passes notability. As for Pittsburgh A to Z, though, I don't see the same level of coverage at all: a short review in the Post-Gazette of the type that constitutes "routine news coverage," and a handful of other passing mentions in Pittsburgh press, plus one or two mentions that the program inspired someone in another city to create an "A to Z." Glenfarclas (talk) 02:19, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Now some of the Colonel's links have been added to the article the notability of the subject seems well established, cant see any remaining reason to delete. FeydHuxtable (talk) 16:19, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also Weak Keep for Pittsburgh A To Z as while admitedly in need of improvement it has 19 hits on google news archive. FeydHuxtable (talk) 18:00, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The article is about the documentary, which gets sufficient coverage. Listing what diners are featured in the documentary, is necessary for a complete article, even if those places don't have articles for them yet. I'm sure since they were in a notable documentary, and thus sure to be mentioned in state news coverage, some will meet the requirements for an article themselves. Dream Focus 11:51, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Pittsburgh A To Z, which is also nominated for deletion. This documentary is a good source for Pittsburgh and nearby places, and should be retained. Other editors, please comment on this article as well as Pennsylvania Diners And Other Roadside Restaurants, and consider whether it can be rescued as well. --DThomsen8 (talk) 13:31, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That's not a reason to keep. How does it meet our inclusion requirements? Personally, I don't think the other one cuts it even with the newly found links. Doesn't appear to be significant to me, and a nomination for a local Emmy doesn't add to notability, but it's borderline and not a big deal to me if it's kept. This one, however, has no reliable sources to establish, or even suggest, notability. Lara 16:17, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - These appears to have been the subject of multiple articles in major newspapers, making it pass general notability guide.--Blargh29 (talk) 09:05, 9 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep. Notability established with Emmy nomination, and the list of diners featured serves as a starting point for future encyclopedic coverage of the topic. Edward Vielmetti (talk) 03:19, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.